Tar Baby

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:54 pm

Hot on the heels of a thinly-disguised allegation that one of John Kerry's *wounds* that earned him one of his Purple Hearts (you needed three PHs to get an early discharge, which Kerry got) was possibly self-inflicted, comes today's call for John to reciprocate running the gauntlet he threw down for Bush earlier this year (that earned him ZERO political points, btw) and make his WAR HERO records open for public scrutiny. He's refusing.

Just more political mud-slinging? Oh hell yes it is, but that's what makes politics fun to watch. It's like a national flamewar and one of the few I'm not directly involved in (at least not yet anyway).

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... ds?mode=PF

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:59 pm

Six of one, half-dozen of the other.

De Rigueur · Post by **De Rigueur** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:32 pm

I just heard on Fox that Kerry would put (at least some of) his records on his web site.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:39 pm

*Some* won't be good enough and Kerry knows it. The Republicans can play *What Is He Hiding?!!* as well as the Dems. I wonder if there's a connection here to the FOI records stolen a month or so back from a historian researching Kerry's war past. My guess is the Republicans are just fishing. If they really had any sordid details about Kerry's Vietnam experience they could exploit, they probably would hold that card in their hand until closer to the election. But it does serve to keep him on his heels and backpedalling. Kerry needs to define himself still and this is a critical time to do that as Americans slowly make up their minds. If Kerry's seen as constantly on the defense (or worse, looking deceptive), that's the definition that will stick.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:15 pm

I for one would like to see the circumstances leading to these purple hearts. One account I heard was Kerry put himself up for the medal and his commanding officer didn't buy it and would not recommend it. Scratching ones asse until it bleeds does not count towards a PH.
So ya, let Kerry come clean like Bush had to with the AWOL bulldukey.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:33 pm

When Oliver North was wounded a second time he requested he not recieve anymore purple hearts so he wouldn't be sent home.

On the other hand, Kerry apparently had a different idea of how to serve his country and himself. He's a heroic baby killer that is proud of both his service and his subsequent testimony admitting to war crimes. So proud he pretended to throw away his medals.

Such a principled man. He makes a fine politician, I hope he doesn't make president though.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:02 pm

A couple of indications of Kerry's purple heart awards and their veracity:

Republican strategists for President Bush were already investigating Sen Kerry's record of three wounds sustained in Vietnam. "We find that he had only one day off sick - with three wounds? What exactly were these wounds?" she asked.
No Source
___________________________________________________

Burkett, whose 1999 book, "Stolen Valor," is considered to be the definitive history of of falsified Vietnam War claims, told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg that Kerry's former commanders would allege that the top Democrat's Purple Hearts were awarded for "self-reported injuries that were virtually nonexistent."
"He never got a day of treatment, he never spent a day in a medical facility,"

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1112619/posts

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:38 pm

Well, both side are just grasping at something with which to nail the opposition. Really, what difference does it make if our president went to war or went AWOL? Does it make a difference in politics? I mean, a president could have dodged the draft and completely left the country but if he makes good decisions in office what does it matter?

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:41 pm

bash wrote:Just more political mud-slinging? Oh hell yes it is, but that's what makes politics fun to watch.

Because that's what politics is about - bashing the opponent rather than actually discussing the issues. Heaven forbid.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:10 pm

Beo, it says a lot about a person. It's an issue because Kerry uses his Vietnam experience as a character witness. So far there's been some very questionable details relating to John's self-proclaimed WAR HERO status. The two thus far is that he may have lied and inflicted the wounds that became his ticket out of Vietnam himself or exaggerated extremely minor non-combat injuries, and I've read reports (on soldier blogs) that the man Kerry killed while earning his Silver Star was very likely mortally wounded or already dead, and the *struggle* that earned John his medal was not actually witnessed by any members of his crew. I'd like to hear if these are just scandalous lies (in which case they will backfire on those spreading them) or indicative of the sort of man and potential leader who's asking me to vote for him.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:31 pm

One of the hardest things about this whole mess is who to believe because Vietnam is such a polarizing topic for both, veterans and their ex-hippie-war protestor counterparts. It's even harder because Kerry claims to be both!

I could believe either party, Kerry or his critics, stretching the truth to paint the other in a bad light.

Kerry's service however is certainly no less suspect than Bush's national guard duty!
He tried to delay his service and when that failed he shipped out only to recommend himself, three times, practically before the sun set as many times for a set of purple hearts then invoked the seldom used rule that says 3 purple hearts entitled him to rotate stateside early....

The only thing saving him from a press corp feeding frenzy is the 'D' in front of his name and even that may not save him now. This story may just grow some legs in October.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:34 pm

Look, both Bush and Kerry are utter morons. Let's all just shutup, elect Powell and be done with it. Then we can all just sit back, enjoy a beer, and play more D3.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:39 pm

Dedman wrote:Look, both Bush and Kerry are utter morons. Let's all just shutup, elect Powell and be done with it. Then we can all just sit back, enjoy a beer, and play more D3.

That's a deal!
I wonder, could we start a 'Write in Colin Powell's Name' campain on the internet and then see how many votes he gets?

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:43 pm

i don't think kerry has a chance, never did.

this topic is just another good excuse for the name callers to caulk-off on the "D in front of his name" everyday until the election is over.

you crackers really should support a third party and make it feasible because these 2 sides are just too black and white. they completely ignore your concerns and focus on well developed slime tactics... arn't they good at it?

i mean both candidates are yale university skull and crossbones members. but you look at their military past? both of them are rich boys and you fiddle over these details? and not the fact that they are of the same cloth?

ahahah.

cya november 5th.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:56 pm

TheCops wrote:...both of them are rich boys and you fiddle over these details? and not the fact that they are of the same cloth?...

I realize my input sounds pro Bush but that really isn't my point.
I'm mad as hell that the press has taken a side in this. If I'm wrong why hasn't the Kerry military service question been givin the same scrutiny that Bush's recieved? Even when the meat of the Bush story proved to be missing most media outlets let the story live on.

I expect political parties to be partisan, I expect anyone to be partisan... but the press is supposed to be objective and this year they aren't even pretending to be so!

Americas electorate is the proverbial poster child for attention deficit disorder and the media holds the keys to the soundbite machine.
That's a dangerous combination.

If the media gets to pick a candidate they influence the election in a big way.

Hell if we're going to stand for that we might as well let Simon from American Idol pick our winner, at least that way we'd get someone who sings in key and knows how to dance.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:56 pm

Will Robinson wrote:Americas electorate is the proverbial poster child for attention deficit disorder and the media holds the keys to the soundbite machine.

Tis one for the "Will Robinson book of quotes" methinks.

Very true, but not limited to America i fear.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:00 pm

TheCops wrote:you crackers really should support a third party and make it feasible because these 2 sides are just too black and white.

I have said in previous threads that I plan on voting third party for the first time this year. That is unless Powell actually runs. This country really needs his leadership right now. Barring that though, it looks like it's Nader for me.

Ha, got you. Just kidding. He's an even bigger idiot that Kerry

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:09 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
TheCops wrote:...both of them are rich boys and you fiddle over these details? and not the fact that they are of the same cloth?...
Hell if we're going to stand for that we might as well let Simon from American Idol pick our winner, at least that way we'd get someone who sings in key and knows how to dance.

"I'm Rick James Bizotch!"

but seriously will.
the city i live in just went through a 47 day public transit strike and it was ugly. i know most of you live in car culture and can't relate... but it had 2 effects on me.

1) i had to walk 2 miles to work and back or hit someone up for a carpool... not my style. i did it on foot like a real mammal. what next? do you need a microwave you pansies?

i walked an estimated total of 154 miles in a month and half... the ironic side-effect being a sharp increase in dates.

to your point, will.
the first bus ride i took was like a nightmare political ad. there was a woman in the front row of the bus "preaching" at full volume. she lead us through "why unions are good 101", why "taxes should be higher 101", why "the governor should be impeached 101" but failed to mention "why i should be thankful i'm not being hacked-up by machete because of my tribe 101"... dumbarse.

the vast majority of the american public are not typing on the dbb. they are not typing from the hallowed halls of academe. they are buzz word morons looking for a tiny violin to play their tune... and it's just easy to pick between disney and warner brothers cartoons for their politics.

what shocks me is the dbb has such zealots that sling the mud and don't look in the mirror. both parties are slime... and you know it. you can't be that dumb with your not-to-be-challenged resume.

2) i live a block away from a resource center for the blind, and those who are going blind. so my walking to duluth is not a big deal in relation to other peoples problems.

watching a blind man find his way down the street with no ride... and making it. makes all the bs about john kerry's pubic hair seem just pathetic. but that’s politics right?

you should attack the media… keep them in check. but if you stoop to the level of a politician guess what you have become?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:38 am

"what shocks me is the dbb has such zealots that sling the mud and don't look in the mirror. both parties are slime... and you know it. you can't be that dumb with your not-to-be-challenged resume." Cops

Bush is my God, republicans are my choir

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