FRETILIN

kufyit · Post by **kufyit** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:50 am

Anyone have any thoughts, quickly, on the FRETILIN movement for independence in East Timor as compared to the various theories of citizenship and democracy articulated by Iris Marion Young, Mary Dietz, Russell Hansen, Douglass Lummis, Will Kymlicka, and Michael Walzer?

Shoot me. 15 pages by tomorrow. Got six so far. Up all night.

Here is my thesis:

The FRETILIN movement, while sucessful in gaining independence for the people of East Timor, has since failed to achieve any real success because of their inability to translate the general theories of citizenship and democracy they fought for during Indonesia's 24 year occupation, into real, pragmatic and functional theories applicable to the problems of post-independent East Timor. Their failures are evidenced by a decline in public support for their movement.

Can you say, yuk?

I just need someone to commiserate with.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:20 am

America needed eleven years after declaring independence from Britain to write our successful constitution. It was not our first attempt to get it right. We made mistakes. Fortunately, we learned very quickly from our mistakes.

Democracy is hard work. It's so hard, so painful, that one wonders why bother with all that hassle in the first place... until one remembers what it is like to live under any other form of government.

Democracy will only succeed where patriots are willing to work and to sacrifice and to serve. Don't be discouraged by adversity. Give these folks time to work things out.

- Sirian

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:52 am

Hopefully East Timor will not go the way of Haiti. If a foreign intervention force does not set up the concept of democracy to a people who have never experienced free will, then what you are going to see is a endless string of corrupt leaders . Secondarily what kind of economy does East Timor have? Again, comparing to Haiti, if the population is going to have to live in a constant state of poverty then real democracy will not take hold and perhap why the FRETILIN leadership is waning in popularity.

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:35 am

i didn't know easttimor was newsworthy in the USA. what's the interest?

if you'r thinkin what i'm thinkin, then GIT BACK! coz we're ALREADY illegally stealing their oil

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:04 pm

Actually, I haven't heard anything about East Timor. Worthless 30-second soundbyte nightly news...

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:18 pm

Is it just me or does Indonesia LOVE acronyms?! I mean come on, their political history is filled with so many three letter acronyms that I actually started wondering if I was reading about U.S. History!

Damn Sukarno...

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:50 am

DCrazy wrote:
Damn Sukarno...

Ummm...behind the times a wee bit aren't you?

kufyit · Post by **kufyit** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:30 am

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:17 pm

He started the whole ball rolling.

I hated freshman history. I hate history in general, but 9th grade history was the worst. the last thing I remember about Indonesian politics is when Megawatti got voted out or something.